I appreciate the explanation of this little video describing prop 8 and what it's affects would be.
I know that most people who read this blog will most likely vote Yes on Prop 8 but if you are on the fence and are hearing that this is an equal rights issue then research a little more to find out what it's all about. This video is helpful but I recommend finding out more on your own.
I know that everyone in my family and extended family has strong opinions about politics (and religion) and that is a really good thing. I appreciate this so much and feel lucky to be in family and to have friends with strong view points and opinions. It keeps me thinking about what I believe and why I believe it.
As a Christian I feel obligated to act on a few things politically. The main ones are
- Freedom of religion (this is huge)
- Protection of the innocent (this is why I feel so strongly about abortion)
- Capitalism (this is a weird one because CAPITALISM is almost a dirty word lately, but I believe that having a society that encourages competition financially and has the ability to grow can also do more good for the poor and helpless than a society where everyone is kept 'equal' by Socialism. It never works out like the idealistic formula.)
Lately I have felt like these fundamentals have been challenged. People don't see them as important and kind of scoff at the "idealism" that they perceive in believing in these things. I believe that much of this has to do with postmodernism and seeing things as all relative. There is a hopelessness in this and it kills me to see it.
What we believe matters. It affects how we see the world and how we see God. It also affects how we relate to the world around us and God.
America has made it's mistakes but it has mostly been a force for good in the world. And the reason for this? Freedom, defense of the innocent and yes, capitalism.
I mean, without America would we have computers, cameras, cars, space ships, light bulbs, airplanes, and any thing else that was invented or discovered in the last 150 years in America? This country has encouraged and championed entrepreneurship, humanitarian work, missionary service, big and small business. It has given the freedom for more cults to be formed, more churches to meet, fashion fads, entertainment galore. America's citizens (and non-citizens) have been able to prosper and thrive enough so that we can share our wealth, good ideas and bad with the world.
I guess in writing this I want to challenge the Anti-American words that I keep hearing whispered and shouted lately. It's on t.v. it's on bumper stickers and t-shirts. And, I hear it in the cynicism of my peers. I want this to be out there whether it's read or not. I feel that these things need to be said if not shouted.
12 comments:
Thanks for your post, GG. It's so true.
Gretchen,
It is a delicate subject, so I will only mention a few things that nag at my heart when I read this.
I think there is a vast difference between what America was, is, and wishes to be. Most people would agree that America has been a force for good in the world... in the past. But does that mean we should not cast a critical eye on what we are now? I am not anti-American, but I really am not very content with what we have become. Who feels like our government represents the people anymore? That is the problem. In a democracy, the government should represent the people, and the current America does not. Or, maybe it does, in which case I would be anti-American. For me, it is more an expression of discontent with the current state of things than the entire history of our nation.
Now, Capitalism is a interesting ideology. We as Americans have it woven into our genetics, so to question it seems like an insult to our mother. I think Capitalism as an ideal might be able to coexist with Christian ideals on a small scale, but that is not the world we are in today. I struggle with reconciling my course in life as a Christian, and the tenets of Capitalism: Capitalism is essentially self-serving and profit-seeking, and we are called to be self-less and give to the poor. The scale of Capitalism today is vast, and Christianity does not keep it in check like it did in the early history of America. The most glaring problems I see have to do with inequity between those with capital, and those without. In the early years of our country, Puritan ethics prevailed, and the values of charity and frugality tempered Capitalism, and made sure there was a better distribution of wealth. In the last century or so, those ideals have eroded almost completely, and we are left with a culture that is marked by greed and selfishness. I think this is not so much a problem of Capitalism, as a problem of Christianity compromised by Capitalism. This is where defense of the innocent also comes in. While abortion legislation may check the use/abuse of abortion significantly, the biggest factors in predicting abortion trends is socio-economic conditions. Increased greed and selfishness in our culture today means the poor stay poor, and are more likely to abort their babies out of economic need and hopelessness. No matter what laws we pass, if we do not provide for the poor, there will be dead babies, either aborted, or murdered after birth. That is my problem with Capitalism in a culture devoid of values. Either the people do what is right on their own, or the government will do it for them. I prefer the former. What do you see happening in the future? A more moral people, or a top-down morality from the government?
Just as the above might seem hopeless, I would like to share how I see hope. I am one person, but I interact, touch, communicate with people everyday. If by my words, actions, life I can motivate people to live the love they claim from God, and they do the same, I think we can actually generate positive, healthy communities within our culture. If it continues, we will see the poor helped in our communities, and a more equitable living standard, even within the system of Capitalism. I have hope in what I see happening in my community now. If our culture starts to change, there will be no need for the government to impose morality on us. That is something I hope to live to see.
Gretchen, I admire your willingness to think these things through and engage the ideas of those who think differently. I am usually too discouraged, wimpy, and intellectually lazy to do the same.
I think you might enjoy reading Peggy Noonan's weekly column on the Wall Street Journal's opinion pages.
http://online.wsj.com/public/page/news-opinion-commentary.html
I normally eschew political reading (a character defect, I'm sure), but I always find her take on things to be very interesting.
Daniel, I thoroughly agree with you that the hope of a good society comes from individuals doing the right thing. Sharing, helping and generally touching lives around them. I know that no matter where the world goes I have the Holy Spirit who guides me to do His will with those around me. (If I listen).
Hopefully I can provide a coherent reply. First of all, I want to clarify that I don't worship America, capitalism, freedom, republicinism or conservative beliefs. I worship Jesus Yahweh.
I do feel glad to be an American with the history we have, which unfortunately includes many stains ie. slavery, racism, child labor etc... But which also includes the ending of slavery, the ending of child labor, a massive generosity towards our neighbors as well as other nations, a spirit of inventiveness and strength and a foundation built on Biblical ideas, oh yes and is filled with good people who are freaked out by even a thought of racism. I could go on.
These things have made America great! There is no other country like the one created in July of 1776. We are a new country with much to learn but if you look at our history we have been a leader in the world in a very positive way in the last 200 years.
You say that you are not content with what we have become as a country. I agree. We have become a nation of welfare, abortion, gay rights, intolerance, and a lack of concern for law. A nation with citizens that look down on their own country and who vote for things that will erode the backbone of America. I also do believe that there is corruption in the government. I hope it is exposed. (And yes I do agree with Thomas Jefferson's idea that the government needs to be kept accountable to the people. This could mean a revolution about every 50 years or so. But the again how will the people revolt when we have no weapons? hmmm. I'm just say'n.)
Capitalism. It is a human system. Not perfect by any means but it creates a structure where ANYONE can make money. ANYONE can succeed and ANYONE can work their way up from welfare to a position as a CEO. When you say that it just creates greed and that it keeps the poor poor you couldn't be farther from the truth. Just ask any entrepreneur who started out as a poor single mom and then created a product which made here a millionaire. Or ask the mechanic who make a good wage owning his own business. I mean did you see the movie "Pursuit of Happiness"? Great example of capitalism working.
Capitalism requires accountability to work. Yes there are greedy corrupt folks who have thrived under a capitalist society but we live in a world where bad people live as well.
But what is the other option? Socialism? This is a system where you never can reach anything higher. If you make money the government can take all of it if they want and choose what to do with it. We have seen how socialism works in China, Russia and the former Soviet Union. It depressed people. No one could get ahead or thrive. The government could say what to do and when to do it. Religion was squelched. People were persecuted by corrupt governments who had and have no accountability.
In a perfect world socialism might work but this world is FAR from perfect. It never will be perfect. That is why capitalism works.
In conclusion, yes, I agree that hope is found in individuals making good choices that affect those around them. I'm glad that we have the choice to be moral people.
I agree that the government shouldn't impose morality on it's people. But, in many ways it is. We are being told what to believe about homosexuality, abortion, evolution. If prop eight doesn't pass in California a certain "morality" will be imposed. Freedoms will be lost.
I hope you understand what I'm saying. And I also hope that you understand that as someone who lives in one of the most left areas of the country I have many frustrations involving politics and religion.
I mean if you are conservative and admit to it you would be shunned, made fun of, called "evil" and worse. So, yes I do have strong beliefs but I'm also open to new ideas as well. In fact I have changed my ideologies over time and with more knowledge some of my black and white beliefs have become gray.
I welcome your comments and your ideas. I might not always completely agree but I welcome and appreciate them!
I am glad we both have convictions that lead to action. I think that we pretty much agree, but approach from different angles. Neither of us would rather have a Socialist economy like those that have existed in the past, and both of us see value in the current Capitalist economy. We share the perspective that our culture and government are not what they used to be, mostly due to the erosion of Christian values in society. We both believe in the power of the Holy Spirit through the actions of individuals to change the world around them. We both go against popular political norms in our state (Michigan is also a liberal state).
I will not vote for either popular candidate, and I maintain a very conservative fiscal stance, as well as a constitutionalist view of the federal government. This puts me into the Libertarian camp, which is almost so conservative it is liberal. Most of the issues I have today with our culture stem from what I see as the failure of Christians to be light and salt. So my perspective is that we, as Christians, do not do enough to influence the culture around us.
I personally put little hope in the current system for effecting change, but have great hope in local expressions of love, faith and obedience to God. It does not mean that I think that you should not vote your values, but the opposite. You are convicted to vote a particular way, and that conviction is good. Conviction is personal, and I believe the Holy Spirit moves and motivates every individual in a very personal way.
Thank you the positive dialog!
Gretchen,
I have been mulling some of these ideas over...
I also do not want to see a socialist government. Neither do I have much faith in the unbridled capitalist system that just imploded on itself.
If we expect the federal government to legistlate Christian morality in issues like gay rights, abortion, etc. Then perhaps one would also require the government to create and enforce laws against divorce, adultery and alcoholism. These are all things that are clearly not good for humankind and are also sinful according to Christian teachings. What "sins" that have become rampant in our society should be addressed at the Federal level? How are our freedoms compromised by such an idea? I hear freedom being treated as one of our greatest attributes, but there's two sides to the coin. Without Christian values and love and support from individuals, most of these issues are not going to be solved by government.
I don't feel that either of our two real choices in this current election are going to do well in solving the ills of our society. Something I would like to see change in, is how the U.S. is perceived world-wide. Being a catalyst for change in the world is impossible if we continue the way we are right now. And the way we treat our own citizens has a lot to do with how we are able to interact with the global society.
I'm glad that Tech and Gretch are entertaining this conversation. Sounds like we have a lot in common.
Anonymous, if you are going to comment on this blog please put a name. All comments posted without a name will be deleted. Sorry.
“What is the difference between Palin and a Muslim fundamentalist?
Lipstick.”
Pope John Paul II feared that George W. Bush was the Antichrist. Sarah Palin is a Bush disciple, so does the devil’s work continue. The book “House of Bush House of Saud” factually demonstrates Ronald Reagan supported Saddam Hussein as the lesser of many evils in an evil dominated region and the House of Saud as being the most evil. Within hours after the 9-11 attacks, dozens of Saudi royals and members of the bin Laden family fled the U.S. in a secret airlift authorized by Bush and Osama bin Laden might have been on the secret Bush airlift, but now we will never know thanks to the Bush cover-up. Cast your vote and give glory to the devil burning your pumpkin lanterns. The hour of rightness is upon you with Jesus Christ soon to return, your votes will be recorded in the book of life.
Nathan, you are right that the financial system is obviously broken. I don't think that has to do with capitalism as much as it has to do with corrupt people who made rotten choices involving bad credit.
As far as morality in America, I don't think that "sin" should be dealt with on a federal level by any means but there are some major issues surrounding the homosexual movement. Back in 2000 I think it was, California voted against gay marriage. The vote was blatantly overturned and gay marriage was said to be legal against the voters wishes! The will of the majority was stomped on. This is what Prop 8 is about, restoring the stance that marriage is defined by one man and one women.
I just had to respond to this issue because it's just about "sin" and the federal governments involvement but it's about the will of the people.
Actually in thinking about this last comment I posted, some sins ARE dealt with on the federal level. Mainly dangerous ones. Murder, theft, etc.... This is a good thing. Our society is a safer place because these "sins" are punished.
Good discussion here!
Here are just a few thoughts I have:
I don't think that Capitalism is the reason for this financial crisis. I think it can be traced back to groups like ACORN who pushed the government into allowing ANY person to own a home - even if they couldn't afford it, no questions asked! They weren't asked how they would be able to pay their bills, they just deserved a home. This was based on these groups’ view that all people deserve to own a home, which is not a Capitalist idea at all - more Socialist than anything. Of course, people couldn't really afford the homes they bought, and had to foreclose on them, which left the banks holding the bag and created this financial mess.
Another thought that occurred to me is that the government imposes morality all the time in every single law it legislates and enforces. Let's take a less controversial moral problem than homosexuality - how about stealing? Pretty much everyone can agree that stealing is wrong, so we all go along with the laws that are enforced against thieves. Or how about speed limits? They are put in place so that more people are safe on the road. The only reason homosexuality is such a big controversial issue is that people are getting farther away from God's truth in our culture. Stealing affects a person when their hard-earned goods are taken from them, so there's a selfish (if you want to call it that) reason to support laws against stealing. But homosexuality is an offense to God and how He made us and how He wants us to reflect His relationship with the church (the Bride being the church)as well as His plan for how we should form families.
God's plans and laws are always for our own good, and when His truth is applied to society's laws, society runs smoothly…Because it's running the way God designed it to run. Therefore we should fight for God's truth to be upheld by laws if we want our country to function in a healthy way...
If we don't push for legislation that reflects God's truth (i.e. "legislate morality"), then you can be sure that other people will jump in and legislate their own morality, as in the push for homosexual marriage right now. And that will affect our children and families, children who are adopted by them, views of right and wrong, the growth of diseases, and the list could go on. And don't forget what God did to Sodom and Gomorrah because of the many sins condoned there - homosexuality being one of the top sins. Even if we're not for homosexual marriage ourselves, there is still a sin of ommission if we refuse to vote or stand up against it.
America is not our hope – God is. But as long as we have the right to vote, I think that we should take advantage of that right and vote for God’s truth – because it is the only truth, and it works in society because God designed it to work.
So there’s my two cents. :)
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